Senior Treasury minister appears to stumble over questions on the rising debt
Senior Treasury minister Laura Trott seemed to stumble over questions about the rising debt as a share of GDP while defending the Government's tax-cutting ambitions.
She claimed she had "different figures" when presented with the latest official projections from the fiscal watchdog, which suggest an increase over the next five years. On BBC Radio 4's PM programme, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury was challenged after claiming debt was falling as a share of GDP.
The Office for Budget Responsibility said in November that debt excluding the Bank of England is forecast to climb as a percentage of national income from 89% in 2023/24 to 92.8% in 2028/29. Ms Trott faced questions about hints from senior Tory figures of a possible pre-election giveaway in the spring Budget.
When asked why the Government was discussing tax cuts while one of Rishi Sunak's five key priorities, reducing debt, was not being met, she said: "The central pledge is one of our fiscal rules which is that that needs to be falling over the five-year fiscal forecast as a percentage of GDP, which it is."
Presenter Evan Davis interjected, telling her it is set to be "higher in five years than now" and pointing to the latest projections. After a pause, Ms Trott appeared to start saying "I'm not sure", to which Davis replied: "This is really basic... I'm amazed that you don't know that debt is rising."
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The minister said: "I think I need to have the figures. I've got different figures which... I think we just need to... yeah." She didn't clarify which figures she was referring to.
There are various ways to measure debt public sector net debt (PSND) and public sector net debt excluding the Bank of England, with the latter usually used by the Government. It's predicted that PSND will decrease by about 4% as a share of GDP over the next five years, but the underlying debt excluding the Bank of England is expected to increase by around 4% in the same timeframe.
Earlier on the programme Ms Trott criticised Labour for its now-dropped promise to spend £28 billion annually on green projects, a move the Conservatives have used to accuse the Opposition of having a poor understanding of public finances. Sir Keir Starmer announced he would need to reduce the spending pledge if Labour wins power due to the Tories overseeing a "very broken economy".
She said: "I mean, it is extraordinary. If you just look at this one thing, this is their key economic policy and they can't even agree on this... Rachel Reeves has not been able to say the £28 billion. Just two days ago, I believe, Keir Starmer was saying it's absolutely necessary.....so this has just been a total mess, the likes of which I don't think we've seen for a number of years."
Labour's Darren Jones, the counterpart to Ms Trott, said: "The Tories have crashed the economy and doubled the national debt over the last decade. This evening we discover that Laura Trott, Jeremy Hunt's number two, doesn't even know the basic facts of her job. It's terrifying to think these people are not just in charge of the country's finances but still think they can lecture anyone else."
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