Post Office boss admits fat cats may have got money taken from scandal victims
Money wrongfully taken from victims of the Post Office scandal may have gone into the pay packets of the organisation's executives.
Campaigners are calling for former boss Paula Vennells to hand back the £2.2million she was paid in bonuses during her time in charge. Former Post Office workers' lives were torn apart by the Horizon IT scandal which led to some declaring bankruptcy or remortgaging their homes.
Nick Read, who is the Post Office's current chief executive, was grilled by MPs on the wrongful convictions of hundreds of subpostmasters. Pressed by the Labour MP Ian Lavery on whether money taken from branch managers could have been part of "hefty numeration packages for executives", Mr Read said it was "difficult to say". But pressed again, he said: "It's possible, absolutely it's possible." He also promised to "get to the bottom of exactly what happened".
It came as the boss of Fujitsu admitted the firm has a "moral obligation" to pay compensation to sub-postmasters whose lives were ruined by its faulty IT system. Europe Director Paul Patterson said the Japanese firm was aware of "bugs and errors" in its Horizon programme from "an early stage" and admitted it provided evidence to the Post Office which led to staff being wrongly prosecuted.
Appearing before the Commons Business and Trade Committee on Tuesday, he said Fujitsu was "truly sorry" to more than 900 postmasters and their families who were wrongly pursued for theft and fraud due to the flawed IT system it developed. "We were involved from the very start. We did have bugs and errors in the system. And we did help the Post Office in their prosecutions of sub-postmasters. For that we are truly sorry," he said.
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Fujitsu Europe director admitted his company has a 'moral obligation' to pay compensation to victims (PRU/AFP via Getty Images)In a major development, Mr Patterson said the firm would contribute to the massive compensation bill for Post Office staff who were wrongly accused of theft and fraud due to its IT system. He said: "I think there is a moral obligation for the company to contribute... absolutely we have a part to play and to contribute to the redress, I think is the words that Mr Bates used, the redress fund for the subpostmasters".
The Government has already set aside £1billion of taxpayers' cash to allow the Post Office to fund payouts - but Tory Minister Kevin Hollinrake told MPs on Tuesday he expected the bill to rise further.
In a bumper evidence session, Mr Patterson also said his "gut feel" was staff at Fujitsu knew of errors in the Horizon system before 2010 - and insisted the Post Office was told.
He couldn't say when the glitches were discovered, telling MPs: "I can't answer a month or a year. There were known bugs and errors in the system at a very early stage. I know there were bugs and errors when it was rolled out; in large IT projects there will always be some bugs and errors, particularly of this scale. The important thing is what do we do with that information. Did we share that information with the Post Office? Yes, we did."
It comes as the independent Post Office Inquiry heard that Fujitsu software developer, Gerald Barnes, recorded concerns over "duplicate transactions" not being removed from Post Office electronic point of sale service (EPOSS) machines, and the potential for it to impact "a number of high-profile court cases". In 2008, Mr Barnes described the lack of resilience to errors of the EPOSS machines, which were run by the Horizon system, as "endemic".
Fujitsu's global boss Takahito Tokita also apologised when approached by the BBC at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. In his first public comments on the scandal, he said: "This is a big issue, which Fujitsu takes very seriously." Asked if he wanted to apologise, he added: " "Yes, of course. Fujitsu has apologised for the impact on the postmasters' lives and their families."
Fujitsu has been awarded nearly 200 public sector contracts since 2012, worth a combined total of £6.8 billion, according to analysts Tussell. These include IT services for Government departments, including the Police National Computer, which stores criminal records, the Government's flood warning system, and the national emergency alerts system launched last year.
The Mirror previously revealed the Japanese tech giant had been awarded a £1million contract to provide computer services for HS2. The Government has said Fujitsu may be forced to stump up cash to contribute towards the compensation for Post Office victims, but it is refusing to prevent it bidding for contracts until a public inquiry into the scandal has concluded. The probe led by retired High Court judge Sir Wyn Williams was established in September 2020.
Downing Street said it wouldn't prejudge the work of the Inquiry. The PM's spokesman said: "We agree that those who are found to be responsible must be held accountable, whether that's legally or financially. "We can't prejudge the work of the inquiry. Part of that is establishing what went wrong and things like culpability, but obviously, we will act accordingly based on the findings of that independent inquiry," they said.
Meanwhile, Post Office Chief Executive Mr Read also blamed a "culture of denial" for the organisation's slow progress in paying compensation to innocent postmasters. Asked by MPs whether he believed the Post Office prosecuted the innocent despite knowing the system was flawed, he said: "I sincerely hope not. But I have not had evidence to that effect."
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Challenged over why the Post Office fought attempts to get compensation for innocent postmasters for so long, he said: "A culture of denial. I can only assume that that is the case. It's a lack of understanding and perhaps a lack of curiosity of what is really going on."
Committee chairman Liam Byrne said he was "fairly shocked" by Mr Read's failure to provide evidence about key issues such as when the organisation first knew that remote access to the IT system was possible - something it repeatedly denied.
Campaign hero Alan Bates said victims were "suffering" and "dying" while they waited for payouts. The 69-year-old, who became a household name through the ITV drama ' Mr Bates vs the Post Office ', said his own compensation process had been delayed. "I think it was 53 days before they asked three very simple questions. It's madness, the whole thing is madness," he said.
"There is no reason at all why full financial redress shouldn't have been delivered by now. It's gone on for far too long. People are suffering, they're dying. It just seems to be tied up in bureaucracy."
Jo Hamilton, who was wrongfully convicted in 2008 of stealing thousands of pounds, said the process of getting compensation was "painfully slow". She added: "It's almost like you're a criminal all over again - you've got to justify everything. It's almost like you are being retried because everything you say you'd like, they say, 'justify that'. It just goes on, and on, and on. Everything has to be backed up with paperwork - it's just nonsense."
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